Steven Crowder Invites Catholics to Try and Convert Him.

Yesterday, I bought a subscription to crtv.com  to watch the discussion between Steven Crowder and Michael Voris about the Catholic Church. Here's the link at: #convertCrowderday (#191 Catholicism vs. Protestantism). At this point, you will have to subscribe $10 per month to watch it. 

My thoughts on the discussion:

Firstly, it took me eight years of open-hearted, open-minded prayers and research to convert to Catholicism, so to think a quick two-hour dialogue that wanders all over the map will be able to explain Catholicism is ridiculous. I am not assuming Crowder or Voris expected that would happen, but I have encountered many Protestants who think that if Catholics are not totally convincing with a few theological soundbites, then game over--Catholicism is wrong. That is unrealistic. 

So, while both Voris and Crowder realize no one will be converting, for theological addicts like myself, this exchange does make for interesting television.  

The First 300 Years

Almost immediately the two started debating the early church. Before I make a couple observations, I want to remind Michael Voris that I wrote him years ago about putting together a series on Church Militant TV dealing with the Catholicity of the first three hundred years of Christianity, pre-Constantine and pre-Bible. Simon Rafe answered that Michael will get right on it!

Crowder's concept of the pristine early church is not unique. Often Protestants believe they are linking themselves directly back to the early church with their doctrines and practices. They are returning to a time before the Church corrupted the faith with things like the real presence of the Eucharist, the honor of Mary, praying to the saints, etc.

Catholics need to prove that in the three centuries before the Bible was put together, the church was united in its belief on the Eucharist, the primacy of the bishops, and doctrines and practices the world today considers Catholic. The early church is nothing like Protestants romanticize it to be. If Protestants really want to return to the pure, early church, we need to show them just what it looked like. We need the evidence out there. Maybe Church Militant will get that series out! 

Now to my two points how to clearly show the differences in Catholicism and Protestantism.

The Truth that Binds  

Protestants unite behind what they believe is truth. Its organizational structure is more akin to a political party in that ideas bind them together. A Protestant church forms around some person's interpretation of the Bible and those who agree with that person's interpretation. So, theology, correct theology, is of utmost importance to Protestants because it is through correct information that they are linked with God and each other.

Through theological positions, one is judged saved or unsaved, a believer or non-believer. If a Christian gets theology wrong, Protestants (who think they have accurate information about God) are obligated to divide with those who cling to falsehood. Because rightness cannot mix with wrongness.... Doctrine  is the glue holding a Protestant denomination together and doctrine is the reason denominations break apart.

While Catholics absolutely believe truth/doctinre is vital, it is not the reason the Catholic Church is united. If the Bible or the Church were to be proven absolutely fallible and in error, Catholicism would still maintain its course. Protestantism would utterly fall because, through scripture Protestants know truth and true truth connects them to God. 

Catholicism isn't wholly dependent upon truth nor scripture. Catholicism unites under family ties. We believe Christ began His family kingdom. 

Christ entrusted His doctrines and scripture to His family. The family structure was formed first, then His truths were given to them. You do not arrive at God through correct doctrine, but through a correct relationship to God's family. 

The different between these worldviews may not seem great, but it is vital in understanding both Catholicism and Protestantism.

Catholics become family through baptism (most often baby baptism where no theology is yet understood). We call Mary our mother, nuns our sisters, monks our brothers and of course priests, our fathers. Through the blood of Christ in the eucharist, Catholics take the kinship of believers very literally. 

For Catholics, it is not an information connection with God but a family one. That is why Catholics can be radical left and radical right on "truths" and still maintain united in their church. Because if Christ is the way, the truth and the life then truth is not found outside Christ. It is our relationship with Him that brings us into truth, not our relationship with truth that brings us to Christ. 

This fundamental worldview difference is clear when Steven Crowder cites Catholic theological divisions and sees these differences as similar to Protestant denominations. Crowder can't understand why Catholics don't simply kick out bad priests and bishops. Within a Protestant worldview--if leaders no longer agree with the church on doctrine, then these rogue theologians need to be fired or be kicked out--anathematized. 

A Protestant church is able to fire an adulterous or thieving pastor. But in the Catholic system, you can't fire an uncle or brother, the blood connection doesn't allow for simply walking away. Our spiritual familial connection obliges us to take responsibility for even the most horrific pedophile priest. The Catholic Church must not discard even the worst among us. (Even if it is imperative that we don't allow rogue priests and bishops to continue leading people astray. If the problem is not legal, we simply put them in a monastery and tell them to be quiet. We don't fire them.)

Catholic divisions are like a fighting family whereas Protestants divisions are like a divorced family or more precisely, a business. 

There may be Catholics standing in a corner speaking with utmost vitriol about an uncle or aunt they may vehemently disagree on doctrines, but when the family is called together for dinner, we all sit at the same table. Protestant divisions are more permanent because their theological differences often cause someone to leave the family and start a new one with a new table. Catholic divisions are just as pronounced, but a Catholic--a real Catholic--goes to mass. The Catholic model is spiritual genetics, our basis for uniting isn't truth, but Christ's Body and Blood. (And I can assure you that many Catholics deeply wish the church could just fire a bad pope or cowardly bishops!)

The Invisible Bride

Protestants and Catholics agree that God's church is His Bride. Yet, Protestants believe that the connection of Bride and Groom is in the heart of the believer and is not specifically organizational. Though Luther did not agree with this, America is mainly a nation of Calvinist theological roots. And John Calvin taught that the church is invisible. 

Catholics highly disagree. Imagine a man with an invisible bride and anyone who claims to be the man's bride through some experiential connection with him is welcome in his bed. I know I wouldn't want to marry a man under those conditions. I, Teresa, am a visible bride to my husband. And Catholics believe that Christ wants His Bride-Church to be clearly seen.

A visible, organizational bride-church is absolutely necessary to fulfill Christ's commission to His followers. If the church were this unorganized spattering of believers all over the world, how could Matthew 18 be followed? 

If your brother sins, go and point out their fault between the two of you.... If they refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector (parts of vs. 15-19).

How can we take people we are concerned about to an invisible church? That would be very confusing. Anyone in any church could claim this ultimate authority. 

Throughout the New Testament the church is a visible group that is persecuted. How would a persecutor find an invisible group? No, these people met together and formed connected groups with leaders. 

Protestants take all the Biblical verses about the Church and see them within an invisible worldview. At most they will see the church as little organized local groups with no interconnectedness and no centralized leaders. However that is anything but historical or Biblical. 

We, as Catholics, need to establish the scriptural and ecclesiastical evidence that proves from the very beginning, the church was visible, organized and united. And that same church was already known as "catholic" by AD 107. 

Michael Voris did a terrific job in his discussion with Steven Crowder. I hope they will do it again, as promised. Voris and Crowder, like many discourses between Catholics and Protestants, need to  define worldviews before dialogue can be successful. I am not suggesting we will convert Protestants, that is up to the Holy Spirit. But we will at least get past misunderstandings and get at the real differences.

To start, we need Protestants to understand that Catholics are a visible family-church united by the blood of Christ. Though we believe scripture to be the inerrant, infallible Word of God, the basis for our Christianity goes to the very kingdom Christ established centuries before the Bible was put together. Our foundation and source is Christ Himself telling His apostles that they are chosen to lead a visible Bride that Christ will never leave nor abandon them. 

A Call to the Joy of Holiness by Teresa Beem

Why does God allow suffering? The cry burst forth from every heart who has known or seen great tragedy. Suffering is all around us, behind the most courageous smiles, the jokesters, as well as the quiet, the judgmental, the irritable. Even pondering the question of suffering can cause pain for it questions the very goodness of God. Why God, why all the death and appalling hatred and destruction, the agonies of the innocent cross human time?

As Christians we often hear the answer to this question as: "sin."

Sin desires hopeless, despairing suffering. The force some call Satan, desires the utter destruction of God's creation. This mad ceaseless, tireless, merciless force will never sleep until there is not one breath of life, one grain of sand, one distant star left in the universe and all is obliterated.

Jesus warns us against following this force of sin, for it is the very cause of the suffering we see. But Christ gave us an answer to how Christians can combat this force while we await His ultimate eradication of it.

Jesus did not tell us to fight suffering with fun, nor to defiantly stand and face suffering down. Jesus said, we fight sin by taking up our cross daily and following Him.

Christianity, rightly understood and lived through the power of Christ, does not seek to avoid the suffering, at least through means that will not draw us into holiness. But Christians seek to redeem this curse of suffering through transforming it. We wrest the power from the devil to hurt us and twist it upwards, giving it to Christ. We take what is meant to harm and use it to make us holy.

When we willingly take up our cross and follow Jesus, we understand where this is going. It is going to our own crucifixion, where we will transform the hate of the kingdom of Satan and turn our sorrows into joy. Through willingly bearing our cross, given us by Christ, Satan's power to harm us and rend us useless with pain and confusion, is forever broken. Christ gives us the power, not to ceaselessly avoid injustices and submerge ourselves in distractions as to not face life, but as King David 23 Psalms, to courageously walk through the valley of the shadow of death fearing no evil, because "Thou are with me."

Christ warned us that his followers' persecution and tragedy will not be lessened but indeed, they will become a target by the dark principalities for greater attacks. Our defense is not to fear these moments, but conquer the power of Satan by holding our arms out in fearless acceptance as Christ did on the cross. We will break the power of the dark forces by our faith that God will not just sustain us during these but with absolute trust in God, He will give us joy!

Imagine the miracle that we can face sufferings with joy. There is nothing the Devil fears more from us than that we will have the courage to walk through fire for Christ. The power of sin that controls us with fear and tragedy would be eliminated. And that fire, meant to destroy us, will turn into a consuming fire of holiness that gives us a freedom that we can never experience when we are enslaved to sin.

God's kingdom turns this world of sin upside down! Think of a life of peace and joy, without fear, not because we perfected the art of ignoring and numbing ourselves with alcohol, drugs, entertainment, or hedonism but because Christ gives us a transcendent life that glimpses eternity!

That is what Christianity is: a glimpse into the divine life of God. And it is worth walking through His Holy fire.

Abortion and Seventh-day Adventists

If you follow me here at this blog, you will know that I converted to Catholicism after leaving the Adventist church. 

I grew up in a wonderful Seventh-day Adventist family. (My testimony can be seen here.) Once I was married and pregnant with my first child, I realized that my beloved church was pro-choice. For twenty years I tried so hard to stir up the Adventist people, who by-in-large are pro-life, to stand up to the General Conference and change the church's stand from pro-choice to pro-life. I was completely unsuccessful and the abortion question was one of the reasons I awoke and started studying other SDA doctrine. Which led to my departure. 

Adventists claim to be the sole remnant of Revelation 14:12 because they alone among the denominations still keep the entire Ten Commandments. Which means to an Adventist that they alone still keep the true Sabbath and everyone else worships on Sunday.  

And yet, I had to finally admit, Adventists do not keep all ten. In fact, the church is pro-choice and some of their hospitals do abortion-on-demand. So Adventists actually teach only that we have to keep nine of the ten. (Ignoring the "thou shalt not kill.") Exactly what they say boots other denominations out of the remnant-hood. So the SDA church is in reality no different than any other church--just keeping nine of the ten, making us all even, right? Their pro-choice stance undermines all authority and all possibility that they are the remnant. 

That is the background of why I am posting this video on a Catholic blog. Because I know many Adventists read this and Catholics need to realize what is going on within the SDA church.

I applaud this young Adventist for his passionate love for the SDA church and his prophetic voice to them. I hope every Adventist will watch this and fight to reverse the SDA church's stand on abortion and once again protect human life.